Tops close to filing for bankruptcy...

MikeinBuffalo · February 17, 2018, 11:29:30 PM

http://www.wgrz.com/article/news/local/tops-reportedly-preparing-for-bankruptcy/520073001

Getting killed by Wegmans, Walmart, Whole Foods and more. Their stores really haven't changed with the times.

retailisking · February 19, 2018, 06:09:21 PM

They're so crippled by debt and pension liabilities that they can't invest anything in the stores. Not sure if there's any way they can recover.
https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2018/02/18/report-possible-tops-markets-bankruptcy-prompts-union-response/349459002/

Scrabbleship · February 20, 2018, 11:06:17 AM

Who can really rescue them at this point? With Albertsons buying a chunk in Rite Aid, they can be counted out even though there is very minimal overlap between the two, just the Ahold Delhaize rejects in the Mid-Hudson Valley with Acme and maybe Rutland, VT with Shaw's.

This might be Kroger's best shot to enter the Northeast, an area they've had an impossible time cracking. I know the areas Tops is in aren't the prime areas of that region but at least it is a start of some sort and a few other key acquisitions would grow it out further. Outside of this, what real opportunity do they have? Price Chopper? Gobbling up a bunch of family-owned chains?

BillyGr · February 20, 2018, 11:58:05 AM

Quote from: Scrabbleship on February 20, 2018, 11:06:17 AM
Who can really rescue them at this point? With Albertsons buying a chunk in Rite Aid, they can be counted out even though there is very minimal overlap between the two, just the Ahold Delhaize rejects in the Mid-Hudson Valley with Acme and maybe Rutland, VT with Shaw's.

Actually in a way it would seem to make them a logical one to pick up something like this. Being that NY State has little Albertsons presence (aside from those few Acme stores they bought from A&P) and also that NY is one of the states that kept a large # of Rite Aid locations (over 300 of the original close to 600 pre-Walgreens sales), along with the limited overlap of the two as you mention.

retailisking · February 20, 2018, 02:51:13 PM

Are the Tops stores that desirable for an Albertsons or Kroger to acquire? Tops appears outgunned by Wegmans in WNY and CNY and by Price Chopper and Hannaford in the Capital Region. What defensible territory do they have left, except for those small towns where no one else wants to do business?

MikeRa · February 20, 2018, 08:43:39 PM

Quote from: Scrabbleship on February 20, 2018, 11:06:17 AM
Who can really rescue them at this point? With Albertsons buying a chunk in Rite Aid, they can be counted out even though there is very minimal overlap between the two, just the Ahold Delhaize rejects in the Mid-Hudson Valley with Acme and maybe Rutland, VT with Shaw's.

This might be Kroger's best shot to enter the Northeast, an area they've had an impossible time cracking. I know the areas Tops is in aren't the prime areas of that region but at least it is a start of some sort and a few other key acquisitions would grow it out further. Outside of this, what real opportunity do they have? Price Chopper? Gobbling up a bunch of family-owned chains?

Why would Ahold Delhaize pick up tops when almost a decade ago Ahold sold off Tops to begin with

JJBers · February 20, 2018, 08:44:51 PM

Dang, I thought they were doing alright for the locations I've been to. (Northville and Cornith, NY)

Scrabbleship · February 20, 2018, 10:20:59 PM

Quote from: MikeRa on February 20, 2018, 08:43:39 PM
Quote from: Scrabbleship on February 20, 2018, 11:06:17 AM
Who can really rescue them at this point? With Albertsons buying a chunk in Rite Aid, they can be counted out even though there is very minimal overlap between the two, just the Ahold Delhaize rejects in the Mid-Hudson Valley with Acme and maybe Rutland, VT with Shaw's.

This might be Kroger's best shot to enter the Northeast, an area they've had an impossible time cracking. I know the areas Tops is in aren't the prime areas of that region but at least it is a start of some sort and a few other key acquisitions would grow it out further. Outside of this, what real opportunity do they have? Price Chopper? Gobbling up a bunch of family-owned chains?
Why would Ahold Delhaize pick up tops when almost a decade ago Ahold sold off Tops to begin with

I said nothing of the sort. I was referring to the Tops locations picked up in the wake of the Ahold Delhaize merger. Two ex-Hannaford (Lagrangeville and Mahopac) and four ex-Stop & Shop (New Paltz and Rhinebeck, plus Gardner, MA and the now-closed Wappingers Falls location). The two ex-Hannaford locations hypothetically could be a little too close to Acmes for comfort.

buzz86us · February 20, 2018, 10:41:37 PM

maybe this could give Big M a chance to control all of smalltown america

retailisking · February 21, 2018, 12:15:29 PM

The company confirms speculation that it will file Chapter 11
http://www.supermarketnews.com/news/tops-files-bankruptcy

MikeinBuffalo · February 21, 2018, 02:31:54 PM

I just want some wealthy industrialist to bring Bells back :-[

BillyGr · February 21, 2018, 04:41:41 PM

Quote from: JJBers on February 20, 2018, 08:44:51 PM
Dang, I thought they were doing alright for the locations I've been to. (Northville and Cornith, NY)

Those are the "small town" locations that have been referred to, and those very likely are doing well just due to lack of other options in the areas (OK, Corinth is about 15 min from Saratoga, but still not just around the corner).

Quote from: retailisking on February 20, 2018, 02:51:13 PM
Are the Tops stores that desirable for an Albertsons or Kroger to acquire? Tops appears outgunned by Wegmans in WNY and CNY and by Price Chopper and Hannaford in the Capital Region. What defensible territory do they have left, except for those small towns where no one else wants to do business?

They really don't compete with anyone in the Capital Region - the stores they have (all former GU stores) fit into that "small towns" category, as GU pretty much sold or closed any store where competition existed in the town. Probably the closest to such would be Coxsackie, as Catskill isn't that far south (with a PC and Walmart) but the rest tend to be out there (Hoosick Falls, Greenville, Tannersville and then you have to go up to Corinth and north for other Tops stores - really not much in the Capital Region directly).

They also have some of the smaller towns out west but I don't know enough there to be so specific (other than one town near Letchworth State Park where we stopped at one last year - that one is in a plaza with one of the remaining old style Walmart non-super stores - the other towns in that area are pretty much stuck with Shop n Save stores from the chain out of Pittsburgh PA area).

retailisking · February 22, 2018, 10:28:41 AM

Nearly one in eight Tops locations aren't making money and could be at risk for closure
"Curci said Tops isn't planning widespread store closings, although the company will review its weakest performers during bankruptcy. The bankruptcy filing indicates that Tops has more than a few of those underperformers. Nearly one of every eight Tops stores is a drain on the company's cash flow, according to the bankruptcy filing, making those supermarkets vulnerable."
http://buffalonews.com/2018/02/22/david-robinson-amid-tough-competition-tops-has-a-plan

Scrabbleship · February 23, 2018, 09:13:48 AM

Quote from: BillyGr on February 21, 2018, 04:41:41 PM
They really don't compete with anyone in the Capital Region - the stores they have (all former GU stores) fit into that "small towns" category, as GU pretty much sold or closed any store where competition existed in the town. Probably the closest to such would be Coxsackie, as Catskill isn't that far south (with a PC and Walmart) but the rest tend to be out there (Hoosick Falls, Greenville, Tannersville and then you have to go up to Corinth and north for other Tops stores - really not much in the Capital Region directly).

The distance between Hoosick Falls and Bennington, VT is the same as that as between Coxsackie and Catskill. And in Coxsackie's case, the Ravena Shop 'n Save is closer by several miles.

As much as they had issues, the ex-Hannaford/Stop & Shop locations relatively isolated from their core seem to be the straw that broke the camel's back. I wonder if they'll be the first shed and if so who would take them.

retailisking · February 23, 2018, 10:58:20 AM

Quote from: Scrabbleship on February 23, 2018, 09:13:48 AM
As much as they had issues, the ex-Hannaford/Stop & Shop locations relatively isolated from their core seem to be the straw that broke the camel's back. I wonder if they'll be the first shed and if so who would take them.

Tops has already closed two of the six stores it acquired from Ahold Delhaize - the ex-Stoppies in Wappingers Falls, NY and Gardner, MA. Not sure how the others are doing.

Scrabbleship · February 23, 2018, 11:20:36 AM

Quote from: retailisking on February 23, 2018, 10:58:20 AM
Quote from: Scrabbleship on February 23, 2018, 09:13:48 AM
As much as they had issues, the ex-Hannaford/Stop & Shop locations relatively isolated from their core seem to be the straw that broke the camel's back. I wonder if they'll be the first shed and if so who would take them.
Tops has already closed two of the six stores it acquired from Ahold Delhaize - the ex-Stoppies in Wappingers Falls, NY and Gardner, MA. Not sure how the others are doing.

This is the first I heard of Gardner, a puzzling pickup if any, closing. They must have been very low-key if they didn't even tell any local papers as such even though they had no chance there between a relatively new Price Chopper, a redone Hannaford, plus Market Basket and Walmart down the road in Athol.

Of the remaining four, nobody screams out as a suitor to grab all of them. Acme and Price Chopper have their own issues and while ShopRite would work in Rhinebeck (no competition), New Paltz (old store across the street from Tops), and maybe Mahopac, it would not work in Lagrangeville where they went into the old A&P at NY 82/Taconic Parkway.

retailisking · February 23, 2018, 01:20:34 PM

Quote from: Scrabbleship on February 23, 2018, 11:20:36 AM
This is the first I heard of Gardner, a puzzling pickup if any, closing. They must have been very low-key if they didn't even tell any local papers as such even though they had no chance there between a relatively new Price Chopper, a redone Hannaford, plus Market Basket and Walmart down the road in Athol.

Gardner's closure was covered in The Gardner News (which is behind a paywall) and Wappingers Falls was covered in the Poughkeepsie Journal. Both closures were announced in November. The union says that Stoppies took back all the laid-off Gardner workers, which suggests to me that the "sale" to Tops was a bit of a sham like what Albertsons pulled in the West with Haggen.
https://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/story/news/local/2017/11/14/tops-close-wappinger-grocery-store-84-employees-impacted/858772001/

nysw3636 · February 24, 2018, 05:43:36 PM

Most likely a stupid question, but can Hannaford go back into Lagrange, Stop & Shop into New Paltz and Rhinebeck? Just asking folks...

Scrabbleship · February 24, 2018, 08:23:13 PM

Quote from: nysw3636 on February 24, 2018, 05:43:36 PM
Most likely a stupid question, but can Hannaford go back into Lagrange, Stop & Shop into New Paltz and Rhinebeck? Just asking folks...

Lagrangeville is halfway between the Arlington (Poughkeepsie) and Poughquag ("Hopewell Junction") Stop & Shop locations.

New Paltz was an island for Stop & Shop and Hannaford has established stores in Modena and Highland.

Rhinebeck is stuck between a Stop & Shop in Hyde Park and a Hannaford in Red Hook.

Possible, unlikely, and unlikely. The latter two would be great pickups for ShopRite or Price Chopper/Market32. Lagrangeville is a total wildcard, perhaps keeping that a Hannaford would've been a path of least resistance.

JimSawhill · March 11, 2018, 08:51:16 PM

Quote from: buzz86us on February 20, 2018, 10:41:37 PM
maybe this could give Big M a chance to control all of smalltown america

What's Big M?

BillyGr · March 12, 2018, 02:16:30 PM

Quote from: JimSawhill on March 11, 2018, 08:51:16 PM
Quote from: buzz86us on February 20, 2018, 10:41:37 PM
maybe this could give Big M a chance to control all of smalltown america

What's Big M?

https://www.bigmsupermarkets.com/locations/

A small chain of stores, mostly in western and far northern NY (with one in PA) - basically (if I'm reading correctly) independent stores that have banded together for better deals (similar to an IGA on a smaller scale).

They are currently supplied by C&S Wholesalers (based on the Best Yet store brands) but they were once part of the Penn Traffic (P&C Supermarkets) family. Not totally sure what/how they wound up when that broke up (since the P&C stores went to Tops, but Tops is connected to C&S also).

Scrabbleship · May 14, 2018, 04:57:49 PM

I was up in Vermont this weekend and paid a visit to the Tops in Northfield, a former Grand Union acquired back in 2013. Even though the decor was swapped to Tops' standard, being in the place screams former Grand Union from the department setups to the wood-bordered customer service area to the registers to the doors still having their magic carpets. This even stretches towards their private label offerings, the ex-GU Tops locations carry very few Tops-branded products in favor of carrying the same Best Yet products that they had during their last decade or so as GU.

Is there any reason for this? Condition of buying the stores from C&S? I would've guessed logistics but the remaining ex-Stop & Shop/Hannaford Tops locations carry Tops-branded products even though they're as far-flung if not more than the ex-GU locations.

BillyGr · June 18, 2018, 02:27:48 PM

Quote from: retailisking on February 23, 2018, 10:58:20 AM
Tops has already closed two of the six stores it acquired from Ahold Delhaize - the ex-Stoppies in Wappingers Falls, NY and Gardner, MA. Not sure how the others are doing.

https://progressivegrocer.com/tops-expands-same-day-grocery-delivery-9-ny-communities

Not sure if this means anything, but you'll notice that the current list includes two of these stores (Rhinebeck and New Paltz) and the last batch earlier this year lists Carmel and Poughkeepsie, so it seems odd that they would go through setting something like this up if they were planning to close those stores?