Is the enclosed mall format circling the drain?

[buzz86us]

I lived in Albany (dead-mall capital of the world lol) before and now that Latham Circle is being demolished I was just wondering what everyone's thoughts were on the whole mall format does it have staying power or is it most likely going to be dead within the next 10 years?

[ynkeesfn82]

Maybe in some areas, but if malls were dying out you wouldn't see expansions occurring at Mall of America and the King of Prussia Mall.

[TheFugitive]

I have a mix in my area (greater Pittsburgh) of malls that seem relatively healthy and those
which are really sick.   South Hills Village Mall, despite being one of the country's oldest, has
reinvented itself several times and appears to be doing well.   It is not a huge mall, but is located
in one of the more affluent parts of town.

Century III Mall on the other hand is in serious trouble.  Located a few miles to the east in a
much more blue-collar area.  I believe it was the largest in the US when it opened around 1980.
It is now more than half vacant, with a whole anchor wing and surrounding parking areas now
cordoned off and off-limits.   I do not think enough chains any longer exist which could fill all
that space.   And since two of it's three remaining anchors are Sears and JC Penney, it is in
some serious trouble.

In my opinion the major factor that has changed for the malls is that young people no longer
go there to hang out.  They don't go to the food court to hang-out and meet their friends, they
hang out online.  They no longer go to record stores, they download music online.  They don't
line up outside record stores to buy tickets to the latest hot concert, they go to Ticketmaster.com.
They shop for their clothes online.  They have pretty much withdrawn from any physical interaction
with the brick-and-mortar world.

[d_fife]

I have a mix in my area (greater Pittsburgh) of malls that seem relatively healthy and those
which are really sick.   South Hills Village Mall, despite being one of the country's oldest, has
reinvented itself several times and appears to be doing well.   It is not a huge mall, but is located
in one of the more affluent parts of town.

Century III Mall on the other hand is in serious trouble.  Located a few miles to the east in a
much more blue-collar area.  I believe it was the largest in the US when it opened around 1980.
It is now more than half vacant, with a whole anchor wing and surrounding parking areas now
cordoned off and off-limits.   I do not think enough chains any longer exist which could fill all
that space.   And since two of it's three remaining anchors are Sears and JC Penney, it is in
some serious trouble.

In my opinion the major factor that has changed for the malls is that young people no longer
go there to hang out.  They don't go to the food court to hang-out and meet their friends, they
hang out online.  They no longer go to record stores, they download music online.  They don't
line up outside record stores to buy tickets to the latest hot concert, they go to Ticketmaster.com.
They shop for their clothes online.  They have pretty much withdrawn from any physical interaction
with the brick-and-mortar world.

century III mall was in trouble when I went there in 2008.

[ynkeesfn82]

Malls are also evolving. So are traditional plazas.

At the Westfield Meriden Square in Meriden, CT after the 1 story Lord & Taylor closed they divided that anchor spot into 3 smaller stores - Best Buy, Dicks, and Border's. After Borders closed they used the space for Christmas Tree Shop Express for the 2012 Christmas Season. They also let the Meriden Police Department use that space for K-9 Training for police dogs. Now TJ Maxx is building a store there. There are some around, but it's not that commons for a TJX owned store to be located in a mall. For some reason based on comments I've seen most people are unhappy about TJ Maxx going into the mall.

I'm sure once JCP closes in May they'll divided the 2 story 150,000 Square Foot Spot into smaller stores. After the owner of the movie theater on Pomroy Avenue closed the theater there was talks of a movie theater wanting to open at the mall. The Problem was there wasn't room to build another addition onto the mall. Maybe part of the JCP space will become a theater. Christmas Tree Shop wanted to open a permanent store in the old Border's but couldn't come to an agreement with the mall over a loading dock. Maybe they can open in part of the JCP spot. I'm sure there's a loading dock they can use there.

At the Danbury Fair Mall they took the old Filene's space and divided it up into multiple spaces including LL Bean and the Cheesecake Factory.

At the Crystal Mall in Waterford Simon put a Christmas Tree Shop and its sister store Bed Bath Beyond into an old anchor spot. BBB is traditionally not found in malls. But whatever works.


In Plainville after sitting vacant since the chain went under several years back DDR took the old Linen's N Things space and divided into 4 smaller spots - Charming Charlie, Five Below, Dollar Tree, and vacant space.

Also in Meriden at Townline Square on Route 5 they are dividing the former Linen's & Things and Old Navy stores into smaller spaces. PetSmart just opened about 6 weeks ago in one of the new spaces and I believe Five Below and an independent gym are also supposed to be opening.  Note: Urstadt Biddle hasn't updated their leasing plan yet to show where the new tenant are going.

[BillyGr]

I lived in Albany (dead-mall capital of the world lol) before and now that Latham Circle is being demolished I was just wondering what everyone's thoughts were on the whole mall format does it have staying power or is it most likely going to be dead within the next 10 years?

Seems more like, as with so many other retail "groups" they are just centralizing and the weaker ones are being weeded out in the process.
So, in the Albany area you wind up with only Colonie Center and Crossgates, and Rotterdam Square in Schnectady rather than the several malls that once existed (like Latham, Northway, Mohawk etc.).

Kind of the same as winding up with just Walmart, Target (and very little Kmart) instead of Bradlees, Ames, Kings, Barkers, Jamesway

Or just Hannaford, Price Chopper and Shoprite instead of Grand Union, Albany Public, Star, Great American, A&P

You get the idea.

[TRU7536]

Some malls are in trouble, but some aren't. A good example is Buckland Hills. Ever since Evergreen Walk was built, it killed that mall and has become a joke. When walking through it, many empty store fronts and these dollar stores in that mall. Even Abercrombie left that mall and that's a teen mall.

On the other hand, West Farms has been booming for years and even with Blue Back right down the road. The reason why West Farms is so popular, because they cater to a specific demographic that many malls around central CT doesn't, people with money.
Its the home to stores like Apple, Microsoft, Tiffany's, Louis Vuitton and a soon to be Lego Store. These stores you wouldn't see at Meriden or Buckland. West Farms is known for not renewing leases (Rain Forest Café, Radio Shack, Build a Bear) and jacking up rent to high end stores, because they can. People love that mall because they have stores that many around don't offer.

[TheFugitive]

I have a mix in my area (greater Pittsburgh) of malls that seem relatively healthy and those
which are really sick.   South Hills Village Mall, despite being one of the country's oldest, has
reinvented itself several times and appears to be doing well.   It is not a huge mall, but is located
in one of the more affluent parts of town.

Century III Mall on the other hand is in serious trouble.  Located a few miles to the east in a
much more blue-collar area.  I believe it was the largest in the US when it opened around 1980.
It is now more than half vacant, with a whole anchor wing and surrounding parking areas now
cordoned off and off-limits.   I do not think enough chains any longer exist which could fill all
that space.   And since two of it's three remaining anchors are Sears and JC Penney, it is in
some serious trouble.

In my opinion the major factor that has changed for the malls is that young people no longer
go there to hang out.  They don't go to the food court to hang-out and meet their friends, they
hang out online.  They no longer go to record stores, they download music online.  They don't
line up outside record stores to buy tickets to the latest hot concert, they go to Ticketmaster.com.
They shop for their clothes online.  They have pretty much withdrawn from any physical interaction
with the brick-and-mortar world.

century III mall was in trouble when I went there in 2008.

It is in a lot more trouble now. 

[Retail Fan+ (Justin Hill)]

Kind of the same as winding up with just Walmart, Target (and very little Kmart) instead of Bradlees, Ames, Kings, Barkers, Jamesway

Don't forget Shopko and Meijer.  :)

[BillyGr]

Kind of the same as winding up with just Walmart, Target (and very little Kmart) instead of Bradlees, Ames, Kings, Barkers, Jamesway

Don't forget Shopko and Meijer.  :)

Just doing the list based on what we have here in this area - and those two chains have never been (but all the former ones were at one point).